tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post1968513775376633834..comments2024-03-05T01:05:37.027-08:00Comments on IN THE NEWS: Forensic psychiatrists reject hebephilia - yet again! Karen Franklin, Ph.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/01032855743077403199noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-7958804433607109302022-04-11T18:41:21.930-07:002022-04-11T18:41:21.930-07:00If puberty starts at between ages 10 and 14 in gir...If puberty starts at between ages 10 and 14 in girls, and 12 and 16 for boys, why is the diagnostic criteria for Pedophilic Disorder is sexual attraction for older adolescents is ages 13 and under? Shouldn't diagnostic criteria for Pedophilic Disorder be is when an older adolescent has sexual attraction to people aged 9 and under for girls, and under 12 for boys?<br /><br />Because when you hit puberty, you are no longer prepubescent child anymore. But, at age 10 and 12, you are still too young to have adult relationships. It can be called Pedophilic Disorder, Hebophillic type, by empathizing that at ages 10 and 12 are pubescent, but depending on how an older adolescent has sexual attraction to those ages can be abnormal.<br /><br />I have been wondering if I am correct that it is normal for older adolescents or adults to be sexually attracted to people who are on or past puberty.<br /><br />I am sorry that I asked, the diagnostic criteria for Pedophilic Disorder is slightly confusing, because for girls, at age 10, you are on puberty, and age 12 for boys, you are on puberty.<br /><br /><br /><br />Sources:<br /><br />https://medlineplus.gov/puberty.html<br /><br />https://www.gracepointwellness.org/98-sexual-disorders/article/571-pedophilic-disorder<br /><br />Oren Franz2https://www.blogger.com/profile/06414688542921223789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-60953725223701084362013-02-19T13:56:07.284-08:002013-02-19T13:56:07.284-08:00@Domics
"If there is someone exclusively and...@Domics<br /><br /><i>"If there is someone exclusively and solely interested in partners in this age range I suppose that he will have a life full of problems."</i><br /><br />In those regions, yes. No argument from me on that. That would be a criminal issue if said person were to act on that interest, not necessarily a psychiatric one. <br /><br /><br /><i>"How psychiatric community addresses this issue?"</i><br /><br />Experts in this field shouldn't need to address it, actually. They only do so in the context of forensics in relation to criminal cases where a profile is necessary to establish. As said, acting on an interest if it is illegal would be criminal, not psychological or psychiatric. However, in many cases, other issues come into play, such as social ineptitude, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a mental or sexual aberration or abnormality. Social problems may correlate to a personality disorder, but, again, this doesn't mean the attraction itself is abnormal. Experts in the field must determine what is going on with an individual, if anything is at all beyond the mere attraction, and then address that.<br /><br />Again, people have a hard time separating what is illegal from that which is pathological. These two are not one and the same. The reason why sexual intercourse between an adult and a minor is illegal deals with moral and social makeup, not nature or science. Some very good reasons exist to substantiate why such an interaction should not be acceptable, but these reasons do not negate natural inclinations or the scientific premises/principles that reflect them.<br /><br /><br /><i>"I [have] to suppose that it is not a biologically normal trait in human females?"</i><br /><br />I wouldn't necessarily say that. Apparently both are. Males are dominant in count over females here because they are evolutionarily wired to seek out young fertility or at least to respond to it. They always have. Women do as well. My only explanation for the distinction is that the impulse is stronger in males than in females for the reason(s) given. Men are supposed to be the pursuers and spread their seed, so the impulse is arguably genetic. This might also be why such a condition does not have a "cure." In short: It is not a disease or abnormality that experts can treat.<br /><br />Karen, what is your take on the theory of genetics? I haven't read anything directly related to it, but a large body of the literature and insight from experts in the field would seem to suggest a genetic connection. I would be interested in reading what you have to say about that. Thanks.<br /><br />researcheronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576084808353132904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-80155396750583853892013-02-13T02:30:35.620-08:002013-02-13T02:30:35.620-08:00@ researcherone
OK, as far as I know sex with youn...@ researcherone<br />OK, as far as I know sex with young pubescents in the age range of 11 to 14 is prohibited in all the Western nations. <br />If there is someone exclusively and solely interested in partners in this age range I suppose that he will have a life full of problems. How psychiatric community addresses this issue? <br /><br />Rind and Yuill writes that this attraction is "a biologically normal trait found to varying degrees in both human males and our closest mammalian relative"; as they writes about 'human males' have I to suppose that it is not a biologically normal trait in human females?domicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02775415782548456535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-90785860523127710342013-02-09T18:36:14.027-08:002013-02-09T18:36:14.027-08:00@ Domics:
"OK, I understand this but, 1) is ...@ Domics:<br /><br />"OK, I understand this but, 1) is it a ' biologically normal trait' and so not a disorder even when a man is exclusively and solely interested in partners in this age range?"<br /><br />I presume by this question that you believe it is? Otherwise, why ask it?<br /><br />How can an attraction that is not pathological in the first place suddenly become so when exclusive? Would a man with, say, a preference only for redheaded women between 25-and 30 have a pathological attraction? How about one only for heavyset women? <br /><br />And please don't say there's a difference. The only difference between these two attractions is that one is illegal in various regions while the other is not. Again, law and morality are not [necessarily] correlative to nature and/or science. That is the entire point being made here, and why an attraction for adolescents is not considered pathological by the psychiatric community in the first place.<br />researcheronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576084808353132904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-72131329475536009652013-01-02T01:34:00.379-08:002013-01-02T01:34:00.379-08:00" hebephilia -- generally defined as sexual a..." hebephilia -- generally defined as sexual attraction to young pubescents in the age range of 11 to 14 -- is a biologically normal trait found to varying degrees in both human males and our closest mammalian relatives, such as higher apes. "<br /><br />OK, I understand this but, 1) is it a ' biologically normal trait' and so not a disorder even when a man is exclusively and solely interested in partners in this age range? 2) is there any difference in homosexual and heterosexual relationships? I mean that a heterosexual relationship is linked to the biology of the reproduction but in the homosexual one there is not this element.domicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02775415782548456535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-88352685337819777012012-12-13T12:59:23.351-08:002012-12-13T12:59:23.351-08:00I find this entire mock trial interesting, and the...I find this entire mock trial interesting, and the outcome is reassuring. <br /><br />What I want to know is: What is the purpose behind it? I see two already: (1) Providing and/or reinforcing known information on the subject within the psychiatric and legal communities, and (2) bringing about a discussion that might spur additional insight. How would this serve to education society at large at a time when many people are in a state of "hysterics" and unlikely want to hear any of it? Is this somehow an early stage in an overall plan to change the way the legal system deals with such cases? <br /><br /><br />"The question is not if sex with pubescent year old girls [are] illegal, or if it is immoral," she told the audience of forensic psychiatrists. "The question to the psychiatric field is: Is it a disorder? And if it is, does this translate, for the expert witness, into a requisite mental disorder found in the specific SVP statute?"<br /><br />This statement appears as the main premise to the mock trial and perhaps the article as well, which suggests that the results serve not necessary to initiate changes in the legal arena as much as the psychiatric community and how it distinguishes mental disorders from non-disorders.<br /><br />I am all for that, but I find this effort would be difficult (if not impossible) in a field where the definition of 'mental disorder' isn't even clearly established. The debate on that continues between members of the psychiatric community and is misinterpreted by many people outside that field, especially in the legal system (e.g. the reference to the word 'children' in the definition of 'pedophilia'. Legal definitions generate ongoing confusion, and many legal experts want adolescents placed within that definition as well). Shouldn't this distinction be established first?<br /><br />As for how we presently and historically conceive the notion of 'mental disorder,' attraction to others who are sexually mature (or capable of coitus) despite age, is not abnormal or deviant sexually. That's natural.<br /><br />Again, what determines the scientific criteria of 'disorder'? The terms within that definition seem to be changing all the time, due to vagueness or ambiguity (as seen through conflicting interpretations).<br /><br />Sorry . . . I realize I am rambling and everything in my post is old news. I am merely curious as to Maskel's overall agenda with the mock trial. The event must have some kind of objective beyond itself. In any case, I will wait to see where this goes. The particular results, whatever they might be, will not come about over night.<br /><br />As for the term 'pubescent' being relative to a studied insect, apparently 'hebephilia' is another one, and one that is under even more scrutiny. The nature of both terms are in constant debate.<br /><br /><br />"That was one of the arguments made by the defense witness in the Lolita case. He pointed to the varying age-of-consent laws around the world as evidence that cultures vary regarding when young people may be considered sexually autonomous."<br /><br />Yes, but in the context of older adults like Humbert Humbert that might be a different case altogether. Some (not all) European legal statues clarify a CIA ("close in age") exemption with a minimal age that differs from the official AoC. Are the official AoCs in Europe exclusive to those, say, under 18, or do they apply to anyone of any age--even that of Humbert's--over the official AoC? For example: What would happen to Humbert in Germany if Lolita had been aged 14 at the time of the interaction? In Italy where the AoC is 14? In Spain if Lolita had been 13?<br /><br />If the AoCs in Europe only apply to those individuals CIA and under 18, the cultural argument might be moot in the context of this mock trial. From what I have read, Poland might commit him, considering Lolita's age fell beneath 15 (the AoC in Poland), as the Polish legal system is seriously abhorrent to the idea of sex between an adult and anyone under age 15. Or am I missing something?<br />researcheronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576084808353132904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-39266964820870423802012-12-12T09:22:08.065-08:002012-12-12T09:22:08.065-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.researcheronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576084808353132904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-38120468284226909182012-12-12T08:15:20.494-08:002012-12-12T08:15:20.494-08:00R1: Just fyi, Google blogs allow readers to delete...R1: Just fyi, Google blogs allow readers to delete a comment and then re-post a corrected one. Not suggesting you need to do this, but you have that choice. Karen Franklin, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01032855743077403199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-33573134698486675422012-12-12T08:05:13.093-08:002012-12-12T08:05:13.093-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.researcheronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576084808353132904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-38536467772462960312012-11-10T16:37:34.611-08:002012-11-10T16:37:34.611-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.researcheronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12576084808353132904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-31054362279976933682012-11-02T15:13:30.106-07:002012-11-02T15:13:30.106-07:00First: I would like to say as always Karen "y...First: I would like to say as always Karen "your webpage is one of the very best sites on the internet" when it comes to talking the truth and real facts relating to this field of study and all the great posts and expert blogs and advice is beyound compare.<br /><br /> I have just one statement to make today and just one question.<br />1.Statement; Has anyone seen what an 11 to 14 year old is wearing along with make-up, hair, perfume etc. these days? along with the language coming out of their mouths,the words in their music and their sexual attitudes?. Their clothing,make-up perfume,music,and sexual attitudes WAS and IS (like it or not) ment to be sexualy alluring.And just as my generation (babyboomers)knew more in the way of sex than my parents did, as they did more than theirs it seems very normal indeed that an adult person just might become sexualy aroused by a 11 to 14 year old. So to say that an adult person who is sexually allured by an 11 to 14 year old (has a mental illness (HEBEPHILIA) better get their heads out of the sand and smell the roses as they say, No it is not using ones better and good judgment(sorry to say it) but some persons just don't have good judgement but that is NOT a mental illness the last time I checked (but I suspect that might be the next to come).<br /><br />2.question; The sexual offender tests and exams such as static 99 that are used as a tool in civil commentment cases of sexual violent predators (SVP)to confirm if an individual is likley to repeat or commit a violent sex crime in the future are good and work this week but bad and don't work next week and this has been going like this for a time now. But my question is? Am I correct in my interpratation and understanding though that all the experts do seem to admit that they (the tests and the exams) are very good indeed in showing and confirming thoes individuals who are what is termed as being a low threat low level sex offender (the persons less likely to committ another unlawful sexual act) Being the experts seem to be saying lately (again if im correct in my understanding)that thay do need to weed out the low threat lower level offenders firt and this is needed as to allow for getting a better hold of the needed research that is used for these test and exams to be properly interpid by the test examiners ("DO THE TESTS AND EXAMS SHOW WHO IS A LOW LEVEL LOW THREAT OFFENDER? YES OR NO". Neil B Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15436556703889712881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-34237812895898228312012-11-02T08:20:00.047-07:002012-11-02T08:20:00.047-07:004nSick: That was one of the arguments made by the ...4nSick: That was one of the arguments made by the defense witness in the Lolita case. He pointed to the varying age-of-consent laws around the world as evidence that cultures vary regarding when young people may be considered sexually autonomous. <br /><br />Cavall de Quer: That gets to your point, too. I don't know about what sex lives they are "supposed to" be having, but we do know that many young people are sexually active, although that seems to be on a downward trajectory these days. (See, for example: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/413?task=view.) <br /><br />Doesn't the word "pubescents" sound like some kind of insects being studied under a microscope?Karen Franklin, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01032855743077403199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-77287457169769722342012-11-02T06:13:03.364-07:002012-11-02T06:13:03.364-07:00Where is the talk about cultural differences in th...Where is the talk about cultural differences in the world related to what is considered "normal" sexual behavior? This seems to be very influenced by existing laws in the U.S. regarding appropriate sexual activity for minors/adults. I doubt all countries/cultures share the same views or have the same laws about this issue. There is such a big emphasis on being "culturally competent" as a clinician, but culture seems to not be a factor in this proposed diagnosis. 4nSickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008408118124978648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361358365193630538.post-29437728792745850972012-11-01T01:10:35.316-07:002012-11-01T01:10:35.316-07:00What sort of sex lives are pubescents supposed to ...What sort of sex lives are pubescents supposed to have, by the way? Cavall de Querhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17687910584661433398noreply@blogger.com